VPR Cast#92 – Yak Cast 47 “MMO-ology 2.0″

Welcome to our 92nd mmo podcast at mmoSmacktalk.com! Enjoy a 3 way discussion among Yak, Coolit, and Ryan. Things heat up right away as Yak tears into our loving friend H. Slayer… Ryan defends, and Coolit arbitrates. After the dust settles we cover Darkfall, Mortal, and other misc sandbox and clone games. Comment here, or on Yak’s site.

DISCLAIMER: This cast may induce nausea, vomiting, and prolonged erections. Listener discretion is advised. NSFW/NSFchildren (they never really are :) )

About this feast of a mmo podcast:
 Over 2.5 hours of volcanic ear joy.
 Coolit joins the cast.
 Yak vs H.Slayer, minus H.Slayer.
 Some good misc mmo discussion: Darkfall, Global Agenda, Mortal, and light points on upcoming mmos (archage etc)

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Game Discussion and Analysis:

  • Darkfall Online (DFO): open pvp, full loot, loads of asses to kick.
  • Xyson: (Xyson:)): open pvp, twitch based combat, limited loot (?), safe zones, sandbox oriented.
  • Stray Bullet Games (No Name Yet): from the makers of Shadowbane, comes a mystery tanked game… Remind me to mention this.

32 thoughts on “VPR Cast#92 – Yak Cast 47 “MMO-ology 2.0″”

  1. Amusing cast.

    Let me clarify something, I dont care if you enjoy playing Hello Kitty Online or Farmville, whatever floats your boat Yak.

    The reason I called you a carebear, was mainly because you suggested to change the system in Darkfall to please the masses.
    If you were to take Darkfall away or atleast change it into another game, then what are the people who enjoy Darkfall gonna do?

    Which other mmo is there to play that is first person shooter, open pvp and full loot? A game based purely on skill, a game where I can go anywhere and kill anyone, anytime I want, or atleast try…xD

    The only game close to DFO would be Mortal Online. Im not gonna say alot about it other than from what I have seen, ill pass and I think alot of the people playing DFO would agree. Atleast in its current state.

    Whereas if the tables were turned, and you were to change a game like WoW into a full loot, open pvp and first person shooter, then alot of people would be angry ofcourse, but atleast they have alternative games to play.
    Theres rift, runes of magic, warhammer online, lord of the rings online, aion, allods online, DDO, Everquest, Champions Online, DC Universe and the list could go on.

    Play what you want, just dont change a game thats one of a kind into another clone, just because you personally dislike it.

    You remind me of that guy that reviewed DFO long time ago after only playing a week, or the people coming from games like WoW, that constantly whine on the forums about how hard DFO is and how they should change, when they only have played for a couple of days, basicly seeing less than 1% of the game.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but atleast play the game longer than a week before you give it.

    About what Coolit said, I agree that there needs to be more penalties on death in games. One of the things that makes Darkfall exciting is the fact that you can lose everything you have on you when you die.

    In the beginning, if you get killed in Darkfall, then it sucks to lose gear, because you have no clue about the value of items, but at the same time, knowing you can do the same to whoever killed you or anyone else for that matter, makes it worth it.

    Now, atleast for me, its more about how you die instead of what you lose that matters.

    Anyways, nice cast, even with the weird noises and voices, haha.

  2. @H.Slayer: All good points. I figured you inferred a suggestion that DFO ought to be changed in order to increase the population (as did I).

  3. @H. Slayer Well put and thank you for not making a troll post and responding with a well thought out post. You have my respect now!

  4. @H.Slayer: Need to get you on a cast :). BTW, the guy who gave a BS review from euro gamer was Ed Zitron, may that name forever live in infamy.

  5. ‘sandbox’ and ‘amusement park’ mmo design aren’t mutually exclusive. I think DFO rocks in its non PVP aspects, and there is alot they can do to enhance the world that they created.

    Imo DFO still fails to be as ‘sandbox’ as UO or early SWG because it embraces too much of the PVP aspect (which is not bad, just a different niche). I think ppl mislabel sandbox to be ‘hardcore pvp full loot’ when imo, its more about open ended design, ala Minecraft/GTA games etc. Imo, a minecraft/elderscrolls gameplay type mmo (skillbased/building) with some combat focus and community cities would probably be The Next Big Thing… maybe.

  6. @smacktalkfan: I hear you… and I admit to be loose with the definition, but how would you rate SB in the sandbox realm, and what about the fact that you can bring tools into a sandbox… which is what every kid does? And by using tools, you are using templates, ala dfo cities… yet that doesnt discount it as a sandbox because you still have placement and upgrade choices. Then there’s other things of course, but dont you think this is a valid point?

  7. This was a good cast. A very good one, in fact.

    When it comes to sandboxes my definition is rather vague, I suppose. A sandbox, to me, is just a game that gives me rather large amount of freedom and allows for creativity. Ryan’s analogy with the various tools he’d bring was interesting, and in my opinion a good one.

    @Ryan: I forgot to comment about it on the last cast (or was it on the cast before that?) about you wanting to cast more frequently. I think we’d all appreciate it :-) Your casts are great.

  8. @Ryan Check out the comments from Ryan on my site here: http://bit.ly/lsFJmL

    I’ll add them here as well. Next time I will have to have Gespenst on as well. Dude we need to do a cast like this together once a month? What do you say?

    Post from Blockhead: “This is by far the best cast I’ve listened to from anywhere. Checking out Ryan’s post’s too. thx.

    Finally finished this cast off today and should have posted as i went though it over the week, i had comments but F’k i’d write a f’in novel. Only con was Gespenst wasn’t on.

    One thing i will say though, In the future if you’re going to go on a tangent “DO IT”

    Probably going to listen to it again. Might have a new format here Yak – MMO-ology, well, your show is already all encompassing, it’s what makes your show so appealing.”

  9. Cool cast! I play Rift now, taken a pause from Darkfall after 2 years. Rift has plenty of twitch and skill. As they have line of sight. When i sticky back a fighter and stay behind him, he cant hit/ parry etc.

    And there are so many abilities, so when i use them in the right moment, and the right way it makes a huge difference.

    Also i like that there are so many varieties of specs, so you never know what the enemy has. So for me thats like mastering you path so to speak. You can become skilled with what the character you mold.

    But i don’t get the same adrenaline rush as in Darkfall :)

    Also, carebear is now a bit twisted and negative perhaps, but back in the day it meant simply : a decent player who cares about others, dont pvp, and enjoys peaceful elements, as well as pve.

    Yak! There is onet hing Ryan does that i really like, when he coughs or makes other bodily noises etc, he silences the mic. Its a way he shows that he cares about us listeners =)
    Just a friendly tip.

    Also Darkfall… I feel it is based on my personal skill when fighting.. Truly. But I wouldnt be able to kill without my macros for changing weapon + whirlwind, bow + disable shot etc… If they truly fix the GUI in dakrfall, everyone will be even. I feel the new players also lack the freedom the rest of us fix by using macros. And that truly takes away from the game sadly.

    When i kill players in Rift in the open world, i feel its a fair fight. And it feels good.
    Not as much adrenaline. But it feels right.

    Keep up the good work guys.

    AV Should really give you a lifetime account Ryan, at the wery least. Same for the people that made the Politiacl map, or the free interactive maps

  10. @ray ray: All good points. I know what you mean RE Rift and twitch. Even though I bag on those types of games, I do realize that there are definitely different layers of player skill; however, after having experienced DFO, I realize that the point-click-unload games abstract out some of the player skill… insert addons into the mix, and the abstraction becomes more vague (ie people lose site of what is skill vs planning, vs addons vs macros). And then of course the visceral feel of DFO in pvp is huge.

    I would also like to add, in regards to your statement on dfo and setting up your macros, that I whole heartedly agree, and favor the idea that the devs ought to level the playing field by converting commonly macroed tasks into features. And for anybody that would misinterpret this as pro-dumbing down the game, you’re grossly mistaken. I like complexity, but we have to question… should their really be such a large disparity between those who are more technical outside of the game than within (perhaps so… but I’m not sure of that). One example that I have brought up before is my loot macro. I can quickly pick up, on a one to one basis, items on a grave like nobody’s business, whereas the non macro player is doing a lot of drag and drop (something I refuse to do because of carpal tunnel symptoms that seem to surface from that sort of repetition). So I would like it if DFO would implement a click loot system. Where you can (via some combo of buttons) click to loot, versus dragging each individual item.

  11. @Ray Ray Rift twitch skills? LMAO The difference it taking a walk in the park, VS. taking a walk in rush hour traffic.

  12. Sorry for the late response, but point-and-click combat has a different set of awareness/skill. It’s more macro-based than micro-based (like in Darkfall/GA/etc.).

    I think micro takes more skill, but to say macro takes little skill is not true. When you add in the add-ons, then yeah, it’s pretty easy but without the add-ons macro skill takes a lot.

  13. By the way when I say macro skill, i do not mean command macros, i mean macro-management in terms of buffs, healing, dispelling, etc. which is much more prominent in controlled-pvp situations that most point-and-click games have.

  14. @ luciusETRUR: Essentially, I agree with what you’re saying. There is definitely skill involved, but skill is often clouded by add-ons (as you noted).

  15. @alb: Thanks! I think I realized that a few months ago, but totally forgot. That’s why in my notes above I mention that they were producing a “mystery tanked game…”, which was to say that they were developing a game that nobody new much about, and it tanked before it even reached the gate. haha! Sad, actually. Well thanks for confirming!

  16. Ryan, my ears are feeling terribly solid. I am in dire need of a melting of my lobes :(

  17. @Wudunder: good news then! I will plan to aerate your kind, dirt filled lobes with 2 casts over the next 2 weeks (unless my guest falls through).

  18. @Steve Reynolds: Welcome back! How was basic? When do you begin your advanced training (ie for your networking mos)?

  19. @Widunder: Dude, I just realized I threatened to clean your ears 2 weeks ago! Thanks for bearing with me. Time flies.

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